# 105 | How to Set Boundaries in your Interior Design Business (& Life)

It's really important, especially for business owners, for women, for parents or caregivers, whether you're caring for your community, your children, aging parents, that's often a role that we find ourselves in, in addition to our careers. Mm-hmm. And to me, part of being a whole bodied person is my life is about more than just the work.

Mm-hmm. Obviously, my, my family comes first as it does for most people. I have, you know, friends that I wanna take care of. I love my work and my clients, and I really wanna take care of them too. But I also wanna be a good community member and be able to help with the school. And I am in a choir, and so I enjoy having time to do all the things that, yeah, make our lives colorful.

And if we're just grinding away all the time. That's no fun.

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Hi, welcome to the Designer Choices Podcast. I'm your host, Kate Penal, and this is my lovely friend and partner in crime, Becca Meyer. Hi. Hi. How are you? Good. Getting over a cold little bit. Yep. I can tell also, I'm trying to stay away from you. Hey, there's nothing you got that I, I'm immune to it all. If I haven't gotten it by now, I'm not gonna get it because Oh my gosh, my house.

Spent your house, house an infirmary for like Yeah. A freaking month. I'll tell you what, I was in public education for 20 years. Oof. Right. And I hardly ever got sick. I think I had 'em all. So now that I'm not in built school buildings every day. Oh, your little immune system is, I know. I'm so weak. My immune system is so weak.

Schools are disgusting. And I tell my kids that every day. Yeah. And my daughter comes home and she's like, nah, I still boogers on the Handrail Gross school. And I'm like, girl, just, it's like par. Of course though, that place is gross. It's like, you know, it's a typical school, but it's. Yeah. God bless teachers.

I'm just gonna say that. And principals and all the people. All the people. All right, so here's the fact of the matter is that we may or may not have. Been recording this episode and then realized we actually weren't hitting record, so we're gonna sort of back up and you missed a lot. So Good. So good. But I, I'm really excited about this.

Yes, because I, I think that even in talking to you, the first go round, I got a little clarity. Okay, great. So, we'll. We'll maybe try this again. Well, we'll try it again. We think we'll be we talking. What are we talk about? So today we're gonna talk about boundaries. One of my favorite topics. I know you've been excited.

I actually have been trying to kind of like steer you in another direction. So we didn't have to talk about boundaries. Remember like several times I've given you like a list of topics. Like what about pizza? Booking 1 0 1? That's okay. I'm ready to have truth. Why don't you wanna talk about boundaries being spoken into my life?

I think like when I think about boundaries. I think about how I say yes to too many things like, oh, so you're guilty. I am cookie mom in my daughter's girl Scout roo. Yeah. And volunteer at the school for way too many things. Yes. And so I just feel like I'm about to be, like, the truth is about to be spoken to me.

So, because you've got a lot on your plate in all things you said yes to and all the things I said yes to. Yeah. And I have three jobs. Which your favorites. Oh, this one. Of course, I need to say that I love working with you though. It's fun. Oh, it's fun. It was fun. Well, yes, there are different kinds of boundaries.

Yeah. So we will talk about the different kinds, but time is one of them. And protecting your time is, is really important. And yeah, it's really, it's really important, especially for business owners, for women, for parents or caregivers. Whether you're caring for your community, your children, aging parents.

That's often a role that we find ourselves in, in addition to our careers. Mm-hmm. And to me, part of being a whole bodied person is my life is about more than just the work. Mm-hmm. Obviously, my, my family comes first as it does for most people. I have, you know, friends that I wanna take care of. I love my work and my clients and I really wanna take care of them too.

But I also wanna be a good community member. And be able to help with the school. And I am in a choir and so I enjoy having time to do all the things that Yeah, make our lives colorful. And if we're just grinding away all the time, that's no fun. Yeah. So, yeah. I think I started to realize when we were recording for the first time, not recording mm-hmm.

That there are like some kinds of boundaries like that. That, that I'm not great at, but some that I think I am better at. Like I am, you know, pretty firm spoken with people. Sure. Often, you know, like, don't let people speak to me in a certain way. Like, you know, so it's like different, you know, there are different kinds and I think that that was helpful for me to think about.

But when you just talked about. Kind of allowing work to take over. I, I identify with that, so I love working. Mm. And like, and so I remember when the idea of like work life balance and everybody's talking about it came out and kinda talking to my dad about it, who also works a lot and thinking about how work life balance doesn't have to mean like a 50 50.

It has to mean like what you want it to be. And then I think putting boundaries around that Oh, that's good. Is yeah. Is so good. And how. I, I, it doesn't necessarily have to mean like, oh, this is the pocket of work time that I'm having, and it made me think of that and how boundaries can kind of protect what you decide is the right balance for you.

Balance, you know, that's the, that's the key there. I think that's the new way that people talk about it. Well, I don't know. Do think, well, I dunno. Those people, they're, this does we, but I do think important to get on the same page, like how, how are you, how do you define boundaries? I think boundaries are simply expectations.

It's how you set expectations to others about how you want to be treated and what's important to you and where your yeses and your nos are. Yeah. And. For me, and I'll just say I have not always been good with boundaries. I've made a lot of progress. I'm still a work in progress. Uh, there are a couple of types of boundaries which we'll talk about in a minute.

Some of them I'm better at than others. Like the time boundary. Yeah. I feel pretty good about, okay. There's some others. So the, the thing that happens when we don't. Hold healthy boundaries. We start to, we use, let's go back to maybe an example that we talked about earlier to ourselves. Not, uh, we are having a great time.

Oh my God. We had a, we were having a blast that it can sometimes breed resentment. Mm. Right? Yes. And I think the thing that I, where I've arrived is that if w if I'm feeling resentment, it's n. That's because of me. That's something that I've done. It's not something that somebody else did to me. Mm-hmm. I'm resentful because I allowed.

Someone, whether intentionally or not, people can cross boundaries unintentionally all the time. Mm-hmm. They're well-meaning people and it's just about clarifying what, what is gonna work for you and what's not. You know, who's the most badass boundary setter out there is Brene Brown. She was like, you get a boundary, you get a boundary, you get a boundary like Oprah handing them out and.

Being a fan of hers and listening to all of her books and reading some of them too, going back and buying the book. She's really the boss when it comes to creating healthy boundaries. So, great resource, if this feels like something that feels emotionally difficult for you. Mm-hmm. Because I, I feel like I'm rambling, but I just wanna wrap up with this.

I feel like, especially as women, yeah, we are often taught. This idea of like, be nice, be good, be yeah. Of service. Right. To to what end. Right. Yeah. I, I agree. I think it's like something that, especially women, yeah, especially women, should be aware of so that you can continue to set boundaries. Because I do think in the example that you were just kind of talking about, sometimes you don't know that a boundary is actually.

Needed or being crossed. Like it's because it's not a boundary that you've stated necessarily in the past, you know, so kind of always being aware of kind of what's taking your energy and, and space. Well, I would love to hear from you specifically about why you feel like boundaries are so important in business as a, as a business owner.

Oh, boundaries are super important for, especially for business owners because this is really what's gonna help avoid burnout. Hmm. It also helps protect your reputation. We could talk more about that maybe when we get into different types, but of, you know, I think that we have to teach people how we want to be treated.

And again, I'm not saying that most people out there are malicious and trying to like. Cross you all the time, but people can unintentionally take advantage of you. And this is where we condition clients, uh, how to treat us. So if, let's say, for example, well, can we maybe talk about the four? You wanna talk about the types?

Let's do it. The four of the types that I've sort of thought of, there's probably more. Okay. But here are a couple that come to mind. One is time boundaries. So time boundaries are things like using the business as an example, what days of the week you take meetings. Yes. That's a big one for me. I used to.

Take a meeting anytime that I was available or was needed and realized that time blocking for me and the way that I, my brain works as someone with A DHD that needs to create structure. I was better off having a couple of days a week where I could have those and then protect other days from my creative time and admin time, et cetera.

Last time, so I plenty of options. But the other one is like meeting in the evening so often and I do not understand this, would you ever like call your, well, okay, so that's a bad example doctor. I'm gonna use a different one. But like your chiropractor, would you ever say, can you meet me at seven when I get home from work or whatever?

Mm-hmm. But a lot of times we'll get requests for an after work hours meeting. F look, if you're a designer and that is something that works for you and maybe you're an evening person, maybe you don't, you know, aren't feeding, feeding, feeding a family a rat pack at night and so great. But for me, that's, first of all, my brain doesn't operate great after five o'clock.

'cause I get up so early. Um, up early and yeah. And so if my clients want to get the best out of me. These are the certain times that we do it. So time boundaries can be office hours, communications response times, that's time boundaries. Okay. Scope, what's included in your work and what's not? How do we identify scope creep?

We'll talk more about that. This is one that I'm still really working on and this is emotional boundaries. Yes. So. I am an empath and it can be hard for me to not absorb other people's feelings. Yes. So if a client is angry or upset, even if it's not a me, or especially if it is, yeah. Holding a different holding space between that while still being respectful.

So we can talk more about that. And then financial. So financial boundaries, especially in business, are the terms that you set forth with your client for things like. When payments are expected, the schedule of payments, uh, sometimes clients find it odd that we would ask for a hundred percent payment upfront for their furnishings as we have to explain kind of why that's important.

Uh, but that's a boundary. So I'm sure there's other expan examples, but those are kinda the four that I've, yeah, I've outlined.

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I think that, that's so helpful to outline it that way. I think that that will really help people think about like, what are my boundaries around time? What are my boundaries around scope? Because I think we're al we're always going to be confronted with those, you know, with people wanting to potentially cross them.

And so having a little list to go through, that's really helpful. Let's practice Becca. Oh Lord. Find boundaries. So. Becca, you are so good at what you do. Will you be our cookie mom for 26 27 school year? We'd love to get that commitment from you today if possible by, but that's the day. But that's the thing.

I'm not gonna say no. Well, you know what? Because that's important to you. Yeah. It's, yeah. So I'm not gonna say no to that one, so keep that one. But yes, I'll say so that you can have time to do that. That's right. What else are you gonna say no to? So that you don't, and I think that's right, and I've been thinking about this lately.

To give a really specific example, I volunteer, I, I volunteered time, more time for. My older daughter, just because it's the first, you know? And, and I realized I haven't, there's nothing that I have that I'm, you know, volunteering for my younger daughter and I, so I thought about it and I thought about letting go of some of the responsibilities that I've committed to at this school, after this school year.

Mm-hmm. So that in the fall I can say yes to something. For my younger daughter so that I can either, I know I was thinking about checking the, the yes box for assistant coach on a team or something. Oh, cute. Wouldn't that be cute? You'd be great. Yeah. Anyway, but I, but you know what? When you were talking about time boundaries, because I thought I was gonna be bad at that one because I give my time too much.

But I, I really also liked and appreciated the way that you talked about kind of setting up, like when you were going to do certain things. So this is the time that you're gonna have your client call and when you're available for that and really holding to that, I'm not gonna do evening times for those particular tasks.

And I thought that was also helpful. To think about and when you just posed this question, really thinking about if I am going to say yes to something mm-hmm. What is it that I'm saying no to? What is it that I am gonna kind of replace that with? 'cause it's not, the boundary isn't that I don't want to be cookie mom.

Right. The boundary. Is that I don't wanna be using all of my time and never get to watch Netflix. Yeah. Yes. 'cause there's some really good shows out right now, but the, the ask was, can, can you take this position on the PTO? And uh, I would love to do that, but I simply don't have time. So my trade off was, I'm really good at projects.

Give me a project. Mm-hmm. That's time bound. Shorter than a year, like something quick and dirty, like I'll help with that kind of stuff. And so I ended up updating their website for them and reorganizing it and that was really helpful. So that was a way that I could still help them without overcommitting myself from a time perspective.

So it doesn't always have to be a No. It can be, yeah. Yes. But on these terms, so that, that gets to the heart of the flexibility piece that I, I, I wanna make sure to talk about 'cause. I think the misconception for a lot of designers, women, creatives, whatever, is that we perceive boundaries to be rigid. Yeah.

We're not flexible, and I think flexibility, being a flex, being flexible is I think a really important trait for anyone. Yeah. My, my youngest is. Just coming out of a season where she was really inflexible. Mm-hmm. And she's little, her brain's still developing. It's like once we made a plan, you don't waver from the plan.

Mm-hmm. But that's not what, how life works. Right. Click the, and so she's finally getting to an age now where she's like, oh, you know, I get it. Like it's no big deal. Like she's starting to get a little bit more, go with the flow. It's. Definitely not being, holding boundaries isn't about being inflexible.

Yeah. It's just about protecting your client yourself, whether that's time, money, energy, emotional bandwidth, or whatever. Yeah. Dual currency, I. Uh, I really liked one thing that you said that I just wrote down, or it was a while ago and I wanted to circle back to it, is you said boundaries can really have an impact on your reputation.

And the reason I wrote it down is it made me think about, you know, in. In schools and setting up school culture and how, uh, you ha you have to have some boundaries around like, discipline. And if you, if you give on that, then it's like the next kid's gonna be like, well, you know, Freddy was late and didn't have to have a consequence for that.

And because, you know, they're keeping score. Absolutely. And so I had, when you said reputation, I was like, oh yeah, just like when you're. You can become a reputation as a pushover. Right? Or somebody who sticks to their guns Well, yeah. Somebody who's like too, yeah, yeah. Or somebody who, you know, won't consider, you know, some, some kind of wiggle room or, yeah.

So I think that I, I was just really curious about what you were thinking about when you said that. So, I dunno, do you have any examples or any Yeah, let me thoughts. I'm sure I can think of examples, but I do think that everybody has a reputation. Whether you like it or not, we're sort of, who do you embody?

What are you known? Like, what's your persona? Yeah. Right. And I want my persona to be somebody that has a strong backbone. Oh. Brene Brown says it best. Strong back, soft front. I think I could be getting this dangerously wrong. Well, that's what she said. I've got it and I like it. Oh, that's what she said.

Yeah. But I do think the boundaries are important for reputation. If you wanna be known for somebody that you know, I think has a strong character. And it's not to say that if you are bad at holding boundaries, that you have poor character. Mm-hmm. But it, it's like. Okay. You see me holding this boundary with you?

It also means that I've got your back. I am, yeah. Gonna hold my vendors to account. Yeah. For the things that we're, we're agreeing on here. So I'm representing you to hundreds of vendors that we're purchasing from. Right. And you can expect that the boundaries I hold are consistent and that's something that I want to, yeah.

For clients to know about me and, but also that I'm imperfect. Yeah. Why do you think that some designers struggle with boundaries? Oh, we wanna be liked. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't wanna be liked? I wanna be liked. Yeah, you are. I, I like being able to say yes. Uh, sometimes I think that, well, if I say yes to this, then it gives me, you know, like, it's gonna open more doors and, right.

So you just have to decide. I think this, this is reminding me of. Yeah, going back to being cookie mom versus saying no to other things comes back to, I think it was our first episode where we talked about leaning into your values. What are your values? And for you spending part of you leaving the education world.

Full time was, I would imagine, to spend more time Yeah. With your kids. Right? And so it makes sense that being Cookie mom is Right, comes naturally, because that's the whole point, right? That's the whole idea. But that something else is gonna have to, may have to make room for it. So it's, I think it's just, it comes back to your values and what's important and my, my time is really important to me.

Yeah. I could see though how, as a. Earlier on, business owner, earlier on, designer, how, how you could, you know, want to say yes to more things, just to, I gotta, you know, I gotta get a project, I gotta get pictures, so I'm just gonna say yes to this one thing. Like, any, any thoughts on that? Oh yeah. Oh, that's, did you do that?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean it so often, well, anytime I've said no, or sorry, I've said yes to something that goes. Beyond my better judgment than I think I, I look back and I. Say like, oh, I could see how this would've gone differently if I had set a different boundary. Interesting. I'll give you an example.

Okay. I think I have a story that comes to mind. I had some lovely clients I worked with, uh, on a project back in Texas, and we did phase one of the projects through our typical full service process as we were getting close, well, we were, this multiple boundaries were crossed. There were, there were, but at the end of the day, still lovely people.

And I'm not just saying that 'cause I know for a fact they'll never hear this, but there were some big misunderstandings that happened that, uh, handled differently, I think would ha it wouldn't have been so hard. First to, to just put this into context, the bigger picture context. This was a about a year and a half major renovation of a whole home in Texas that was supposed to kick off in March of 2020.

You do the math there. I got it. COVID hits it. We end up starting in June instead, so it was still went. I ended up moving back to Colorado during that time and my assistant at the time helped me run that project. So then we, our midway through construction and the ice storm of in, in the Texas ice storm, which I think was like 20.

21, people will know this very well. That went through, it froze pipes and they burst in the house even though the water was turned off and you know, a hundred thousand dollars worth of custom cabinetry had just been installed. Oh. Like major, major hurdles with this project. But throughout it they were cool.

Anyway, then we get to phase three and I am so ready to just be done with this and they say, oh, now we want to get all new outdoor furniture. So we. Did that and I am making a really short story long here. The okay, the uh, at that point they said, well, can we just have this furniture shipped directly to our unoccupied in the country home?

And I should have kept to my boundary and said, no, we don't do that because it facilitates too many issues. We are accustomed to using a warehouse. Mm-hmm. They knew that 'cause we used a warehouse. Through the whole process. They didn't wanna pay for it either, which I can understand. They were at the end of their, we were all at the end of our ropes with this project, and so it was like, sure, fine, whatever.

And we ordered and it. Blew up this, the logistical nightmare of the next six months was ranted in my, like I can feel it in my body right now, how much of a struggle that was. And that's because I didn't listen to my gut and my instinct and follow the boundaries that I had set up, which is we always use a warehouse and it's a deal breaker otherwise.

Yeah. So I have never done a project. Where if I didn't listen to my intuition, ignored my intuition, where it didn't, it didn't ever works out. Yep. Yep. Sorry, I feel like I got really excited there. No, I really liked that. I liked that example too, because it's like your clients weren't bad people. They weren't asking for wrong reasons.

It's just, but like you set up those boundaries for a certain reason. Yeah. And so listening to. You know, your intuition and your, your boundaries zone, that would've saved you a headache. But it's also like, it's, it doesn't mean that the person that is like pushing against your boundaries means bad, you know?

Yeah. And so I think that's helpful to remember too. Yes. Because I think sometimes when you push back on a boundary or like you, you use your boundary to push back. Like you could feel like you're being a jerk, but it's like, it's actually not. It's because the person isn't trying to get something out of you.

They're just trying. Right. To understand and you know, and so I think that was actually a really good example. Oh. So go. Well, no, I, I think now I understand why that story was so long. 'cause I felt like it was important to understand like, just how difficult things had been and they were truly cool for the most part through the whole thing.

So, yeah, I, I'm sure I can think of other examples where, you know, yeah. Shit just happens, man. Well, I mean, how do you. How would you recommend people start setting boundaries? Or like, how did you, or how do you mm-hmm. Ongoingly set boundaries? Yeah. So a couple things come to mind for me. First of all, remember it's a practice.

You're not gonna wake up tomorrow and be like the best boundary setter, oh my god. So good at setting boundaries. But you start to notice, I think this is about noticing how your body feels. When you're asked to do something or to not do something, and if you are getting a request from a client or somebody, whatever, and it's not feeling well in your body, that that is a sign that you need to pause and just take a minute and assess, why am I feeling this way?

What. Is there anything I'm missing here? I think this is kind of just intuition and mm-hmm. Listening to yourself a little bit, which is something I like to talk a lot about around here. It's like listening to your intuition, I think is really important. I was gonna say another part of this too long, I rambled.

What's the, what's the question I prompt? The prompt was how, how do we start setting boundaries? Or how do you do it? What are some steps? Well, okay, so first of all it's a practice, so. You're gonna get better at it the more you do it. So I think you can start small. I mean, God just sitting boundaries with my kids or my dogs is practice.

Mm-hmm. Uh, I also think it's really helpful to think about boundaries as not just a benefit for you. Yeah. Don't make it about you. Make it about them. I like that. Why do we have a receiving company? It's not just so that I don't get gray hairs. It's also so that you get all your stuff in one piece in a timely manner.

And so when you put it in terms of how does it serve others, how does it help others, then yeah. Setting boundaries becomes so much easier, especially if Yeah. You come from that place of wanting to always be of service. Well, and if you, if you talk like that too, I think it like really disarms people like mm-hmm.

Yeah. I could just think about even like with my own kids and they'll be like, why is this the rule? And I'm like. It's not about me like having control over the situ. It's like, because we, my job is to help create good adults, you know, in 10 years. Yeah. And so like, this is how it's gonna go because of that.

So it's like, what, what could get on the same page about, it's not, 'cause I'm mean, or stricter, you know, getting on the same page. Yeah. It's a really great way of saying what boundaries are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you mentioned the, the kid component to this. I, I think it's important that you recognize that setting boundaries anywhere in your life is good for you.

So it, we can use this in business context, we can use it in family relationships, friendships, um, but the one that comes to mind with Mike. Kid, my oldest in particular, who is getting to the age where a lot of their friends have cell phones and we're just not ready for that in our house. And I can feel the intensity of the ask.

Yeah. Increasing. And the thing that shuts it down every time is, comes back to boundary setting and the, the way I've handled that is. My first job is to protect you and keep you safe. And right now there's so much research pointing to how cell phones are detrimental to young kids' mental health, and I really want, that's really important that we keep our whole family's safe right in that way, including mental health.

And I'm open to discussion about it down the road, but right now the answer's no. Yeah. And. That's setting a boundary with my kid, and it's not about her being a bad person for wanting it. Right, right, right. And I'm not a bad person for saying no. Right. Well, I think, let's just recap. Okay. So the, the thing that I walk away from boundaries are setting expectations of how you want others to treat you and how you expect to work.

And you say it's getting on the same page. Mm-hmm. I like both of those. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Should we wrap up? We should wrap up. Yeah. All right. A couple things. Uh, wanna let you guys know that the doors are open for. The designer's Oasis, interior Designer Business Blueprint, and our membership, uh, those doors are open on March 12th, and I'm excited about it.

I'm, we're gonna be having, we're gonna be talking to some of the members on our next episode, which I'm really excited about. Yes, that's gonna be such, so if you wanna hear from them, they've had some really exciting business. Uh, yeah. Ups and downs. Yeah. And I feel like I've had the privilege to sit alongside them as they have navigated that.

And so I'm just really, I think of them as friends now, and I'm proud to see how. How much they've grown. Yeah. And are leaders in their own right. Yeah. It's gonna be fun to chat with them next week. Please subscribe to our email list. The link is in the show notes. And if you wanna continue in your learning, Kate has a couple other episodes about boundaries that you can tune into.

Not, uh, OP episode 61, serving your clients without being on 24 7. I think I need to re-listen to that one myself. Maybe listen, oh man. Uh, 92, how to establish healthy boundaries with interior design clients. So. Check those ones out, and thank y'all for being here, and we'll see you next time. Bye for now.

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